What are the most common methods?

[Chaimytb2]

I’ve seen various styles in my town (Beit Shemesh).  
There is no real consensus among the guys.  
I’m trying to decide which to use when I get them. 
What is/are the most commonly used?
When I ask the locals, I get a lot of different answers.  
I may just go for aesthetics and pick a style I like. 
 

[MIlanH]

Are you referring to the Rambam vs. Tosfos machlokes of how many strings to dye with techeiles?

[Chaimytb2]

Question is more about the different styles (I saw about 35 online).  
 

[YYL]

According to the Shulchan Aruch Harav סימן יא you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, and 13 chulyos of blue and white with a kesher on each chulya, that can be done with a קשר תימני. all this is very similar to what Rashi is saying in .מנחות לח - לט ע"א

The Gemara in מנחות לט ע"א says there are 2 ways of tying techeles, either with 7 or 13 chulyos to represent the 7 skies
When you do 13 chulyos you have 7 blue for the 7 skies and 6 white for the space between each sky, but you have to start and finish with white.

according to Rashi you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, you start with a double knot and a white winding, you do the blue and white chulyos, and end with a white winding and a triple knot.

I made it with 2 blue and 2 white strings, started with a double knot and a white winding, 13 chulyos of blue and white,with a קשר תימני on each chulya, first and last chulya is blue and ended with a white winding and a triple knot. The way it says in the Gemara and רש"י סמ"ג והרא"ש, בעל העיטור ושולחן ערוך הרב

color tzitzis.JPG (165.44 KiB) Viewed 129 times

 

[Nosson]

Is it just my filter, or does the image not show?

[Mr. Genugshoin]

Is it just my filter, or does the image not show?

 

the image wasn't uploaded properly

[rhecht]

According to the Shulchan Aruch Harav סימן יא you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, and 13 chulyos of blue and white with a kesher on each chulya, that can be done with a קשר תימני. all this is very similar to what Rashi is saying in .מנחות לח - לט ע"א

The Gemara in מנחות לט ע"א says there are 2 ways of tying techeles, either with 7 or 13 chulyos to represent the 7 skies
When you do 13 chulyos you have 7 blue for the 7 skies and 6 white for the space between each sky, but you have to start and finish with white.

according to Rashi you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, you start with a double knot and a white winding, you do the blue and white chulyos, and end with a white winding and a triple knot.

I made it with 2 blue and 2 white strings, started with a double knot and a white winding, 13 chulyos of blue and white,with a קשר תימני on each chulya, first and last chulya is blue and ended with a white winding and a triple knot. The way it says in the Gemara and רש"י סמ"ג והרא"ש, בעל העיטור ושולחן ערוך הרבcolor tzitzis.JPG 

 

Love the visual. So that effectively makes the first and last Chulyas 5 winds each?

[rhecht]

I’ve seen various styles in my town (Beit Shemesh).  
There is no real consensus among the guys.  
I’m trying to decide which to use when I get them. 
What is/are the most commonly used?
When I ask the locals, I get a lot of different answers.  
I may just go for aesthetics and pick a style I like. 
 



 

At the end of the day it depends who you ask. There is no consensus anywhere. Some say to stick with 7-8-11-13 with Chulyos so there's Lo Sisgodedu, and the last authorities not named R' Hershel Schachter (Alter Rebbe and Radzyner Rebbe) each wrote to do 7-8-11-13 with chulyos, case closed. Some say that it doesn't matter since 7 and 13 were done to remember the heavens, with 8 and 11 as placeholders to make 39 winds for Hashem Echad. Though when some go the route of 10-5-6-5, that line of reasoning goes out the door. It's more of an issue with string ratio than with tying. No matter which tying method you choose, you will go by some Rabbis and against others, it's the nature of the beast. So while it's a matter of aesthetics at the end of the day, DYOR in the reasoning behind whichever tying method you choose and which makes the most sense.


The larger machlokes is with string ratio and that's where I would say to be consistent of. Personally I started off with Raavad ratio as I didn't learn the Sugya yet, then switched to Tosafos ratio early after learning that most Poskim wearing Techeiles did either Rambam or Tosafos, and to me Rambam ratio made less sense. Furthermore, the overwhelming majority of Rishonim and Acharonim write on Tosafos ratio, though that's not to ignore those that write on Rambam, with a surprisingly very small minority writing on Raavad ratio. As for tying method, I alternate between a few different styles, though generally gravitate towards a mix between R' Benzion Halberstam's method, R" Halberstam's method with Teimani chulyos, and R' Hershel Schachter.

Though at the time I'm writing this I'm wearing Baal HaIttur tying.

[YYL]

According to the Shulchan Aruch Harav סימן יא you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, and 13 chulyos of blue and white with a kesher on each chulya, that can be done with a קשר תימני. all this is very similar to what Rashi is saying in .מנחות לח - לט ע"א

The Gemara in מנחות לט ע"א says there are 2 ways of tying techeles, either with 7 or 13 chulyos to represent the 7 skies
When you do 13 chulyos you have 7 blue for the 7 skies and 6 white for the space between each sky, but you have to start and finish with white.

according to Rashi you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, you start with a double knot and a white winding, you do the blue and white chulyos, and end with a white winding and a triple knot.

I made it with 2 blue and 2 white strings, started with a double knot and a white winding, 13 chulyos of blue and white,with a קשר תימני on each chulya, first and last chulya is blue and ended with a white winding and a triple knot. The way it says in the Gemara and רש"י סמ"ג והרא"ש, בעל העיטור ושולחן ערוך הרבcolor tzitzis.JPG 


 

Love the visual. So that effectively makes the first and last Chulyas 5 winds each?

 

The first and last Chulyas are only 3 winds, the white at the beginning and the end is not part of the Chulyas its an extra add-on for the extra word in the posuk הכנף מין כנף - הכנף as explained in Rashi.  The reason I did 2 winds instead of 1 is because I wanted to have in total more white then blue. 

[rhecht]

According to the Shulchan Aruch Harav סימן יא you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, and 13 chulyos of blue and white with a kesher on each chulya, that can be done with a קשר תימני. all this is very similar to what Rashi is saying in .מנחות לח - לט ע"א

The Gemara in מנחות לט ע"א says there are 2 ways of tying techeles, either with 7 or 13 chulyos to represent the 7 skies
When you do 13 chulyos you have 7 blue for the 7 skies and 6 white for the space between each sky, but you have to start and finish with white.

according to Rashi you need 2 blue and 2 white strings, you start with a double knot and a white winding, you do the blue and white chulyos, and end with a white winding and a triple knot.

I made it with 2 blue and 2 white strings, started with a double knot and a white winding, 13 chulyos of blue and white,with a קשר תימני on each chulya, first and last chulya is blue and ended with a white winding and a triple knot. The way it says in the Gemara and רש"י סמ"ג והרא"ש, בעל העיטור ושולחן ערוך הרבcolor tzitzis.JPG 



 

Love the visual. So that effectively makes the first and last Chulyas 5 winds each?


 

The first and last Chulyas are only 3 winds, the white at the beginning and the end is not part of the Chulyas its an extra add-on for the extra word in the posuk הכנף מין כנף - הכנף as explained in Rashi.  The reason I did 2 winds instead of 1 is because I wanted to have in total more white then blue. 

 

Speaking about Min Kanaf, that was just discussed in Daf Yomi, Nazir 58a. What source says that the min kanaf can be independent of any single Chulya?

Also, I "get" the obsession of 7 chulyos being 7 heavens, but there's a larger matter with Maalin B'Kodesh V'Ain Moridin. If one alternates chulyos colors, white represents Rachamim and Techeiles represents Din. So we want Rachamim to win against Din and more white Chulyos achieve that. We see this is Kabbala and Chassidus in everything, from putting on the right shoe before the left, and among Chassidim to have shirts/jackets specially made so that the right crosses over the left. That doesn't mean one shouldn't wear Techeiles at all though.