Color of murex trunculus dye

[Mr. Genugshoin]

Why no proof of Techeiles used for blue by Goyim?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I already linked to a painting of Charlemagne and son wearing blue cloaks.

What's wrong with that?

 

That's from medieval times (rishonim), what's the proof for Roman times?

[MIlanH]

Why no proof of Techeiles used for blue by Goyim?

A picture is worth a thousand words.

I already linked to a painting of Charlemagne and son wearing blue cloaks.

What's wrong with that?

 

I did not see that link, is there proof that it was blue from murex?

[Nosson]

Mr. Genugshoin:

I mean to extrapolate...

MilanH:

How else did they get blue pre-synthetic dies?

Moreso, if the blue came about in any other way, it wouldn't be "royal", so they wouldn't do it anyway.

[Nosson]

Here is the link again, for ease:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_the ... _Pieux.jpg

[MIlanH]

...

MilanH:

How else did they get blue pre-synthetic dies?

 

Could it have been from indigo?

[Mr. Genugshoin]

Here is the link again, for ease:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_the ... _Pieux.jpg

 

The question would be, how old is this painting?

[Nosson]

...

MilanH:

How else did they get blue pre-synthetic dies?


 

Could it have been from indigo?

 

 ... if the blue came about in any other way, it wouldn't be "royal", so they wouldn't do it anyway.
 

[Mr. Genugshoin]

...

MilanH:

How else did they get blue pre-synthetic dies?
 

Could it have been from indigo?
 

 ... if the blue came about in any other way, it wouldn't be "royal", so they wouldn't do it anyway.
 

Blue was only considered royal from 12th century on, and the importance was the color, not its source
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_in_c ... ltramarine

[micha]

The question is is there evidence of murex trunculus being used historically for blue

 

If there were, it would strong evidence that the banded dye-murex (Hexaplex trunculus) is NOT the chilazon.

After all, we are looking for a process that was lost. If there were evidence that it was a fish with a shell that made the blue most people take for granted tekheiles is supposed to be (right or wrong), how would the identity of the chilazon have remained lost long enough to be entirely forgotten? Someone would have found record of the trunculus producing the dye they expect tekheiles to be made with.

Our hunt would be for a source of blue from a sea creature with a shell that people lost track of. Either because we didn't realize that was the right shade of blue or because we didn't realize the sea creature made it.

[Mr. Genugshoin]

I don't follow your logic. Either we are looking for a creature that went extinct, or a creature that exists, is recorded in history as being used for blue, whose production stopped for a long enough period of time. If we have no historical proof of the trunculus being used for blue, why would we assume it is the chilazon?